It boils down to whether an "ordained" minister of the gospel has the God-given right to self defense or whether they're expected to live by a higher standard? One question is, would it be an entirely legal issue or would the BOE get involved? I've heard that in some jurisdictions, Witnesses are counseled not to own guns for self defense. So I surmise it's a strictly local theocratic matter.
Cold Steel
JoinedPosts by Cold Steel
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Killing In Self Defense
by Cold Steel inthe man was moving around in the darkness of j's home with a gun.
he was certain j. and his family weren't there, but he was wrong.
when a door suddenly opened and a dark figure fumbled for the hallway light, he had only a moment to act.
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Gog of Magog is still SATAN!!!
by ADJUSTMENTS induring the public discourse today the brobot talked about the gog of magog, and he stated that he was satan!!!
i had to ask my wife if i heard him correctly, and she said yes he said it is satan.... i couldnt wait to run up to the brobot after the meeting and inform him of he "new light" we just recieved yesterday!!!
when i approached him i asked him : what is gog of magog?
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Cold Steel
Doctrinely, what is the NEW Gog and Magog? When people get up and speak on such things, do they actually READ Ezekiel 38-39 in different Bible versions, or translations, or do they just read the pertinent WATCHTOWER articles. How do they interpret the fact that Gog will come out of the North and decimate Israel? If they also read Zechariah 12 and 14, this intended destruction of Judah and Jerusalem will culminate in the Messiah's return. John also says Gog (or "the beast") will attack Judah and Jerusalem (Rev. 11, 14). In fact, he says it will be against Judah in the city where our Lord was crucified. How can that be anywhere except Jerusalem? If anyone's an active JW, please explain, or send me a PM. I'm just interested in prophetic exegesis, nothing more. Thanks!
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Killing In Self Defense
by Cold Steel inthe man was moving around in the darkness of j's home with a gun.
he was certain j. and his family weren't there, but he was wrong.
when a door suddenly opened and a dark figure fumbled for the hallway light, he had only a moment to act.
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Cold Steel
The man was moving around in the darkness of J's home with a gun. He was certain J. and his family weren't there, but he was wrong. When a door suddenly opened and a dark figure fumbled for the hallway light, he had only a moment to act. As the light came on, he launched himself at the figure, whom he instantly recognized as J's wife. Using his revolver as a club, he delivered a blow to her head. Just as suddenly he saw another figure emerge. The last thing he saw was the automatic in J's hand -- a small caliber Ruger pistol. Without a word, J. began shooting. The intruder dropped his .38, but not before J. had unloaded his 10-shot magazine into his head and chest. He was pronounced dead on the scene.
But the plot thickens, as they say. J. is an active Jehovah's Witness. It was ruled by the cops justifiable homicide and the state's attorney agreed. So how about the elders in J's Kingdom Hall? Do they initiate any sort of any inquiry, or investigation, on their own? In short, do they back J., or are they upset that J's affiliation with the Watchtower Society might reflect poorly on them? The intruder's family is angry because their dear P. was shot ten times in rapid succession. Did he have to fire so many shots? Both J. and his wife, considered ordained ministers in Jehovah's "organization," and they testiy that P. had not dropped his weapon until all the shots had been fired.
Is this going to be a theocratic issue or will J. be vindicated because it was a clear cut case of self defense? In the Old Testament, killing an intruder after dark was justifiable. Does that cut J. any slack? And will J. be in trouble because he grabbed his wife and used her as a human shield while he emptied his weapon into P.?
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Christians: Question about, "Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you..."
by Zoos in -
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Cold Steel
What Paul was saying, I think, is that the saints should be obedient to leaders who are chosen and ordained by God (and both kings and emperors have claimed such appointment). That's not to say that people should put their faith in self-appointed leaders who seek to control others. The central aspect of Christianity is free agency -- that men should have the freedom of choice.
The ancient apostles had authority because they were ordained by Jesus. "For ye have not chosen me," he told them, "but I have chosen you and ordained you." (John 15:16) Those apostles received revelation for the guidance of the people. For example, they counseled the Christians to desert Jerusalem and flee to Pella and other cities to avoid the slaughter that came as a result of the Roman destruction of both the city and the temple. No one was forced to leave, but the instruction came from God, who spoke to his trusted servants.
People like Jim Jones, David Koresch and even more rational claimants like Alexander Campbell, John Calvin and others were never called of God, despite the fact that they believed they had been called of God. Thus the WTBTS freely admits: 1) it is not a church; 2) its leaders are not ordained and have no priesthood; 3) they have received no revelation in the form of angels, theophanies or visible manifestations that would confirm that they were actually called of God; and 4) that they lack the spiritual gifts of the ancient church. Thus, those who put faith in their words are putting their faith in the arm of flesh. It's amazing, but I've heard JWs who say that when God's judgments come, they believe that then the GB will receive the manifestations they need to save them. In the meantime, they should question their leaders' credentials, just to make sure that their leaders will be able to get those revelations if and when the sky falls. They also should ask themselves why, if Jesus had a church, why they're putting their faith and trust in an "organization" whose leaders exercise outrageous dominion over their followers -- telling them what they can and can't read, where they can and can't go in the way of churches, what they can and can't display in their own homes and which possesions are inhabited by demons.
Finally, the NWT managed to screw up what Paul was trying to say. He didn't say, "Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you," which implies that they took the authority unto themselves. He said, "Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account." Only those appointed by God must give account of their stewardships. Those who take the lead on their own volition are assuming authority they don't have, and those following them are putting their faith in the "arm of flesh."
Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you. (KJV)
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit to them: for they watch in behalf of your souls, as they that shall give account; that they may do this with joy, and not with grief: for this were unprofitable for you. (ASV)
Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls and will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with sighing—for that would be harmful to you. (NASV) -
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A Challenge to Apoligists - Why Would a Heavenly Father Kill a Newborn?
by berrygerry inas a father, made in god's love, that has troubled me for a very long time, is that god, as described by the wts, is soon, going to slaughter every, roughly, 7.9 billion people on the planet, because they have figured out a way to come know him as a father according to the wts.. .
as a father, dear apologist, why would you kill/murder a one-day old baby?.
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Cold Steel
Murder is the taking of innocent life by humans. We, on Earth, have no idea what the arrangements were made before we appeared, but it is logical to assume that we are on this world of our own free will. (To assume otherwise would be to rob man of that free will.) If all beings are eternal, as I believre, then their existence cannot be snuffed out by God or anyone else. You kill the body and it dies. The spirit lives on. The "soul sleeping" doctrine is very similar to that of certain evangelicals in regard to the "rapture." The former was formulated by the Adventists, which include the Seventh Day Adventists, its spin-offs and the Jehovah's Witnesses. Neither doctrine is biblical, but are manmade.
The point is, you take someone who is spiritually and morally depraved beyond your imagination (like the early Canaanites), who throw their children into furnaces and practice ritual and debase sexual practices, and you clean out a land so as not to pollute a people the Lord is attempting to raise up. That's why He destroyed the people in the flood and other places. When a people become so disgustingly profligate as to destroy the chances of succeeding generations to grow up righteous, it's not only better for them, it's better for their children and their children's children. You may kill a man with the sword, but his spirit will continue to exist in a remedial (albeit unpleasant) environment where, through the blood of Christ, he will eventually be purged of his sins. His offspring, being innocent, will also continue on as spirits and gain eternal life (also through the blood of Jesus Christ). Perhaps it is true that men will be their own tormentors in Hell, seeing and experiencing the things they did to others in life.
Whatever your views now may be...no matter what saucy repertoire you have planned with God (if there is a God), the prophets say the day will come when every knee shall bend and every tongue confess Christ. Naturally, you won’t be able to see how that will happen now, but it will happen.
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The sick account of Abraham and Isaac!
by stuckinarut2 inthis has to be watched!!!
so thought provoking!.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyvcc8ui3cm&list=pl7420408e36541da4&index=2.
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Cold Steel
Hi, Humbled. I suppose you mean that Josephus and the "LDS prophet" (he's actually not, he's a biblical scholar who is admittedly LDS, but what does that have to do with anything?) not being kosher are either 1) not germane to the discussion or 2) that it’s somehow unfair to use their points of view, I wasn't sure. Either way, theists and atheists are never going to agree on the Abrahamic test because atheists are intent on portraying God as a horrible role model, a murderer, child abuser, pro-slavery, pro-incest and just an all round nasty fellow who throws thunderbolts at people who piss him off and torment others just to see how they'll react.
Ultimately it’s all about context. We, who are admittedly here without all the facts, are attempting to sit in judgment of a God who is all-knowing, all-seeing, all-powerful and, thankfully, merciful. But what are the parameters of the discussion? Is it that the Hebrew God is too bigoted, narrow-minded, petty and vindictive to exist, or that he exists and simply happens to be guilty of those traits?
As Paul so pervasively foresaw: “...in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers…unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good…heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God...ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.”
As the well known adage says, “Well, he speaks of YOU highly!” In fact, Paul calls such men “evil” when he writes: “…evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.” (2 Timothy 3)
So it comes down to just who it is who are deceiving themselves and others. Atheists say that Christians are deceived; however, Christians believe it is the atheists who not only deceive others, but who deceive themselves. But the prophecies seem to happen whether people believe in them or not. The prophets said that Judah would come out of the nations and gather back into their ancestral homelands, and it’s happened. And Paul describes today’s Western societies perfectly, saying that in our day “there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.” (2 Peter 3)
And since you mentioned LDS prophets, as early as the mid-1800s, the Lord, through a modern prophet, stated: “And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel; but they receive it not; for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men.” Also: “I have sworn in my wrath, and decreed wars upon the face of the earth, and the wicked shall slay the wicked, and fear shall come upon every man.” Yet as Paul declares, the scoffers will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For… all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.” The wars, the weather, earthquakes, fires, all in record numbers; yet it will not be enough to change the heart of man.
There also are those who say that even if there is a God, he’s so unjust, so cranky, mean and inconsistent — the biggest sinner of them all. Not worshiping him would be a matter of principle. Well, good luck with that argument! Let me know how it works out for you.
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The sick account of Abraham and Isaac!
by stuckinarut2 inthis has to be watched!!!
so thought provoking!.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyvcc8ui3cm&list=pl7420408e36541da4&index=2.
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Cold Steel
Not knowing all the details in a story would tend to cause confusion, so unless one knows, and I don't, it's difficult to reach some of the conclusions many of you are making. Abraham, first of all, did not just hear a voice in his head, if the account is correct. He knew God, personally, as we know each other. Just hearing a voice telling you to do anything would not justify your believing it was of God. We also have no idea how much Isaac knew or how passive or active he may have been.
Josephus evidently had access to extrabiblical accounts, and he quotes Abraham as saying:
"Oh, son, I poured out a vast number of prayers that I might have thee for my son; when thou wast come into the world, there was nothing that could contribute to thy support for which I was not greatly solicitous, nor anything wherein I thought myself happier than to see thee grown up to man's estate, and that I might leave thee at my death the successor to my dominion; but since it was by God's will that I became thy father, and it is now his will that I relinquish thee, bear this consecration to God with a generous mind; for I resign thee up to God who has thought fit now to require this testimony of honor to himself, on account of the favors he hath conferred on me, in being to me a supporter and defender. Accordingly thou, my son, wilt now die, not in any common way of going out of the world, but sent to God, the Father of all men, beforehand, by thy own father, in the nature of a sacrifice. I suppose he thinks thee worthy to get clear of this world neither by disease, neither by war, nor by any other severe way, by which death usually comes upon men, but so that he will receive thy soul with prayers and holy offices of religion, and will place thee near to himself, and thou wilt there be to me a successor and supporter in my old age; on which account I principally brought thee up, and thou wilt thereby procure me God for my comforter instead of thyself."
I understand that if you've left a cultish religion that you'd be pissed, edgy, and willing to believe the worst about religion in general. But you'd only be transferring your hatred and anger from the religion to that on which the religion was loosely based. On the other hand, being a believer in religion, I prefer to understand the story as a type and shadow of the ultimate sacrifice by Christ for all mankind. As one biblical scholar put it in regard to the story of Abraham and Isaac:
Abraham had just passed through one of the greatest dramas in human history. From generation to generation it would be proclaimed as one of the most outstanding examples of righteous faith ever exhibited by a member of the priesthood. It would help others who followed Abraham to trust in the Lord, particularly when his commandments were strange and incomprehensible. In earth life as in the eternities before we learn that obedience to God is for our good. Sometimes he will ask us to do that which may seem paradoxical and strange, but with the faith of Abraham a man will obey God whether he understands the reason or not.
According to Jewish tradition, Abraham expected the Lord to either stop him at the last minute or, if Isaac was slain, to raise him back up. But whether these traditions are true, no one knows. Again, we have only the biblical account as canon and we don't know what Abraham or Isaac thought about the request, so many facts are not extant. If Abraham knew the Lord for as long and as intimitely as the scriptures suggest, I'd be more inclined to give him a break. I don't see it as sick in any way.
By the way, the Hebrew religion never condoned human sacrifice in any way, shape or form, and this is the only account that comes close to it. It did not stop human sacrifice among the Hebrews (again, because they never practiced it), nor did it stop it in the other neighboring cults that did. Actually, it was the Greeks and Romans that eschewed it. Carthage, Rome's largest competitor, murdered infants by the thousands and I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the Lord didn't have something to do with Rome's strange obsession with wiping Carthage off the map. We hear stories of Hannibal and the Alps, but they left the infant killing out of the history. Roman historians for centuries questioned why Rome felt it needed to utterly destroy the Carthaginians. And when anything horrendous happened in Roman history, many of its historians and philosophers referred to it being part of the "Punic curse."
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Where Will Jesus Come When He Comes?
by Cold Steel inaccording to both christian and jewish eschatology, the messiah will come to jerusalem, where he will deliver the jews from hostile nations "round about.
"since the jehovah's witnesses and other adventists don't believe his coming will be literally fulfilled, but figuratively fulfilled, they simply believe he will return to the earth, where he will slay the wicked and the righteous will be caught up to meet him in the air.. first we have a christian declaration:.
and when [jesus] had spoken these things, while [the apostles] beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
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Cold Steel
The Jesus of the gospels was rejected because Jewish eschatology talks of two messiahs, a Messiah ben Joseph and a Messiah Ben David (the Christ). Jewish traditions have merged these into one; however, the Messiah the Jews (and that of many of Jesus' own disciples) was a military savior. According to their traditions, the Messiah would appear during a seige of Jerusalem. This seige was described by many of the prophets, and this is most likely the reason the Jewish leaders in the First Century were itching for a confrontation with the Romans, who had the ability of crushing them several times over. Josephus knew that three legions were more than enough to desimate Israel.
Ezekiel described this confrontation:
After many days thou shalt be visited:in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that isbrought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee. Thus saith the Lord God; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought: And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates to take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land. (Ezekiel 38)
And Zechariah:
For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: but it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one. (Zechariah 14)
Thus it is that the Jews expected their Messiah to come with fire and with a sword. When Zechariah described it, he wrote:
And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. (Zechariah 12:9-10)
Again we have the same situation. The Lord said he would destroy all the nations that came against the city of Jerusalem, but we have the passage about the Lord being "pierced." What are these wounds in thy hands, the Jews ask. And he will reply, "These are the wounds I received in the house of my friends." So why not celebrate the coming of the Messiah? Why go into mourning "as one mourneth for his only son" and be "as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn...."?? The reason they go into mourning is because they will first be filled with joy at his coming. But when they realize that this is the humble carpenter of Nazareth whom their fathers insisted on being put to death, the joy will turn to abject sorrow and lamentation. This glorious being that stands before them -- their Lord and their God -- is the one their fathers rejected, as Isaiah described (see below). Note the terms above: "as one mourneth for his only son" and "for his firstborn." These are both sacred references to Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of the Father in the flesh and his firstborn of human spirits.
Thus they missed all the points that the Lord was trying to teach them. Animal sacrifice was symbolic of what? Why would God want animals sacrificed to him if there wasn't a lesson in it? The sacrificial lamb without blemish was for atonement. The lesson of the sacrifice of Isaac, Abraham's only begotten son. The Lord kept it from happening, but it was more than a test; it was a teaching tool. Then the story of Jonah being in the belly of the beast for three days, symbolizing the three days Jesus spent in the tomb. Then there's the scapegoat. And in the days of Moses there was the graven serpent, which represented Jesus being lifted up and providing salvation for all those who beheld him. And of course there is the suffering servant passages in Isaiah 52-53, which screams fulfillment in Jesus of Nazareth:
Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high. As many were [astonished] at thee; his [facial expression] was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men: so shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.
Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? For [my servant] shall grow up before [the Lord] as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we [the Jews] shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we [the Jews] hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.It's difficult for me to read this without seeing Jesus Christ in every sentence. Also, this prophecy was fulfilled to the letter. Jesus made his grave with the wicked (the two criminals with whom he was crucified) and with the rich in his death (his grave being provided by a very wealthy Jew).
These verses illustrate first what the Jews expected of their Messiah and then what they missed. There's no doubt that many religious Jews in the First Century thought that the Romans represented the wicked nations coming down on them and they simply got it wrong. Instead of deliverance, they were scourged and scattered among the nations of the earth. According to prophecy, however, they are now returning to the lands of their inheritance. In the great war of 1948, then in 1968, the Jews were horrendously outnumbered and not expected to survive as a nation. But they not only survived, they miraculously defeated their more powerful foes and acquired more of the land God promised them. I suspect that eventually the Muslims of the region will be successful and form a caliphate in Turkey. That caliphate will eventually become the military machine that drives down against Jerusalem and will be stopped in the valley of Armageddon. But only time will tell.
If you have anything to add to this, Designs, please feel free to add it. You specifically mention the errors "about and against Judaism in the Gospels and the Pauline Epistles." Whether such errors negate the claims of Jesus and Christianity would be the key question.
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Where Will Jesus Come When He Comes?
by Cold Steel inaccording to both christian and jewish eschatology, the messiah will come to jerusalem, where he will deliver the jews from hostile nations "round about.
"since the jehovah's witnesses and other adventists don't believe his coming will be literally fulfilled, but figuratively fulfilled, they simply believe he will return to the earth, where he will slay the wicked and the righteous will be caught up to meet him in the air.. first we have a christian declaration:.
and when [jesus] had spoken these things, while [the apostles] beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
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Cold Steel
Please read my posts sometime before you take your medications.
I'm saying that Jesus Christ may have indeed been married. I'm also saying that it's highly likely that God has a spouse. The word Elohim, used in the book of Genesis has God (plural, Gods) creating man in God's image, male and female. They said, "Man has become as one of us." The use of the family metaphor may be more than a metaphor. God is the "father" of Adam and Jesus. Jesus was the only Son of God born into mortality. If God is the father of all of our spirits, and we are his sons and daughters, the only missing element is a mother.
A metaphor of Father and Son is incomplete without there being a mother. I could be all wrong, but I'm saying that there's a lot we don't know. Why did God use the Father Metaphor if there's no mother? Read Margaret Barker's piece, referenced above.
We've gotten off the beaten path. That no one has added to the original discussion indicates that the return of Christ is not something taught according to the scriptures by the Jehovah's Witnesses. I wish one would just corner an elder sometime and ask him to explain how and where the return of Christ will be according to the scriptures. I predict the elder would simply shove an elbow in the person's ribs and say he has to go. They have no idea because it's not something the Watchtower has covered.
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Nebuchadnezzar's Dream--The Death of His Dynasty
by Tiresias infollowing my departure from the jehovah's witnesses, i have done my own research using preterism as a primary lens.
i would like to share my understanding of daniel chapter 2:.
31 "you looked, o king, and there before you stood a large statuean enormous, dazzling statue, awesome in appearance.
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Cold Steel
Preterism is something that just doesn't pan out in my view. When it was probably written is based on the research of scholars who believe that prophecy is something that's written after the events take place and interpreted in that environment. Although Preterism is popular among a number of scholars, I find it untenable, personally, and believe it runs into a number of brick walls. In fact, one of my most frustrating email exchanges with a person of another belief system than myself was with a Preterist. Since they believe that all prophecies have been fulfilled, including the prophecies laid out in Matthew 24 and the book of Revelation, they must go through a number of gyrations to find fulfillment of things not yet fulfilled.
As an example, both Jewish and Christian eschatology speak of a time when Judah, under attack from a coalition of its neighbors (a situation that could only occur now), suffers almost total defeat. But, at the last minute, the Messiah, or Yahweh, appears, saves the remaining Jews and destroys their enemy. As the Psalmist puts it: “They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee.” (Psalm 85)
This is something that’s happening now. Not even Nebuchadnezzar dreamed of wiping Israel out as a nation. The present-day neighbors of Israel do, however, and hardly a month goes by without a major call for Israel’s destruction. “Edom, and the Ishmaelites; of Moab, and the Hagarenes; Gebal, and Ammon, and Amalek; the Philistines with the inhabitants of Tyre;Assur also is joined with them: they have [lent their strength to] the children of Lot.”
Some may seek to find fulfillment in the massive attack of the Romans, which scattered Judah to all nations of the earth; however, the Romans were not Judah’s neighbors. When Ezekiel writes of this great despot that will come down on Judah, he specifically lays out what will happen:
After many days thou shalt be visited:in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that isbrought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee. Thus saith the Lord God; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought: And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates to take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.
This is something that Preterism (and JW eschatology) is helpless to explain. Ezekiel calls him “Gog” and John calls him “the Beast.” This great force will move swiftly until it gets to Israel; then the power of God will be brought to bear. Ezekiel speaks directly to this man and tries to warn him, but he knows, like Pharaoh of old, that Gog will harden his heart. “And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the Lord.So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, the Holy One in Israel.”
Some people think this portends the great battle at the end of the Millennium, but there are a number of reasons to believe this is not the case. First, it refers to an event in the “latter years,” or the latter days. Also, the Lord said to him, “Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?” The prophets have always spoken of the Antichrist that would come just before the Second Coming of Christ. The battle of Gog and Magog at the end of the Millennium will be seen as a mere continuation of rebellion against God. But the Gog of which Ezekiel writes is someone who comes to war against those who have been gathered from the nations and have returned to their promised ancestral homeland. The Gog at the end of the Millennium will try to again bring force against God’s people, but by then there will be no Jerusalem filled with Jews, and the battle’s duration will be very short. In the battle of which Ezekiel speaks, known to Christians as Armageddon, it will take place over a longer period of time. It will take seven years to burn the munitions and to bury Gog’s dead.
At the end of the Millennium, there will be no need to bury anyone, because they’ll be vaporized, judged and resurrected in the resurrection of the unjust.
More references relating to this time: Psalms 83, 85; Zechariah 12-14, Revelation 11, which also speaks of a new temple at Jerusalem and two prophets who will be raised up to battle the Beast and the False Prophet.
There are many prophecies that have not yet been fulfilled and many that are in the process of being fulfilled. Preterism sweeps all this under the rug and presses for exegeses that seek to find fulfillment in and before the coming of the Savior.
Zechariah explains exactly how the Second Coming of Christ will be, and it's completely different from how the Governing Body imagines it. It's also a completely unfulfilled (as yet) prophecy.
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